We bought a casale (farmhouse) in the Tuscan hillside almost four years ago, at auction. We moved to Italy in November 2020 into a very strict lockdown. We thought the renovation of our house would take 8 months - it took three years - we finally moved in 8 months ago. Our initial renovation budget more than doubled despite my project managing and generally parsimonious nature! It has been hard - no-one considering this move should underestimate the difficulties they will face on many levels. The bureaucracy, taxes, odd little quirks which dictate what you can or can’t do with your own property (fencing it for one example) are exhausting. There is also what is laughingly referred to by expats as ‘the stranieri tax’ - there are two prices for everything - one for locals and one for foreigners. This in particular I find very frustrating. However having said all that, we have a wonderful life here, the medical system is first class (beating hands down the NHS), and the people are delightful. Will we stay forever? Doubtful as I think when we are older we will want to be nearer our family. Do we regret it? No, it’s an adventure and life is too short not to take chances. Would we do it again? Probably… (but not the renovation!) 😂
Thank you for this very honest and forthcoming response! From what I have learned, your points are very, very important--especially about taxes! And I have heard about the two prices, too. This post on "our place abroad" may be a little rosier than it should be--but I hope to post in the future more about the tax issues and the family topic. I'm happy to hear from you and, should you want to send me a direct message, I'd love to learn more about your experience with the casale in Tuscany. I'm also communicating now with someone who arrived in Tuscany just before lockdown hit, and it has definitely impacted their story of expat life. I'd love to stay in touch. (I'll be back in Tuscany in the fall).
I’d love to stay in touch and happy to answer any questions that you may have! I should have added we are both in our early 60’s and retired. We wanted an adventure before it was too late! I don’t actually know how to DM on here but please contact me if you would like to 😊
This was so much fun to read, Etta. I am American, from New York, and met and married a Swede in 1989 and moved to Sweden and lived there for 18 years, when we and our two daughters, then 12 and 14, moved to Malta to live for four years as a family adventure. After my father's death in 2010, we moved back to the U.S. But every year we visited Sweden and my daughters have always felt more at home in Europe. Now 31 and 29, they make their homes in Barcelona and Paris with their partners, one of whom is Morrocan, the other Chilean. When I initiated my divorce in 2022, I had a feeling I would be returning to live in Europe. But caregiving for my mother with dementia took precedence; sadly she passed away in April. With what I am sure would be her blessing, I look forward to moving to Barcelona in Feb 2025. Thankfully, I have Swedish citizenship and so with that EU passport will be able to establish residency in Spain quite easily. I am inspired by you and by these other women who have successfully pursued their dreams to live abroad. There are more and more of us. I recently discovered this Substack writer, Starting Over In Spain (also Barcelona). Jennifer Bush, https://startingoverinspain.substack.com/ And like you I follow Anne Boyd and Kirsten Powers.
Amy, thank you so much for reading and responding. I apologize for my delay in writing back—and I’m sharing publicly rather than privately . . . should anyone else be interested! My sister married a Swede in ‘87. She remained in the US, however, except for travels. Her death about 10 days ago has thrown off all my social media (and a lot more of my daily routines). Reading about your transitions and/in family life have been helpful to me. I must add here, though, that I still live in the US. Since 2009 I have traveled to Italy as much as possible and continue to consider living there. I’ll be teaching in Pisa for a couple of months in the fall, so I have that new adventure ahead of me!
Hi Etta, So happy to have found you. My husband and I just bought a villa outside of Pistoia, Italy in February this year. Returning the end of the month (timed to avoid the US election! ) and will stay for 3 months. I got my Visa, but my husband's was declined. So always happy to share war stories about these moves abroad. But we couldn't imagine having any other adventure right now. i am 70 and it makes us feel quite young and alive! I will enjoy following along. Ciao!
Hi, Alecia! So happy to meet you virtually! I have a good friend in Pistoia. (See the May 2024 issue of All Things Italy! Link below) I look forward to learning more about your journey. I will be in Tuscany Oct-early December and hope we might meet face-to-face then.
Etta, Consider it a date! I will do my best to communicate with you through messages - send my email, WhatsApp phone, etc. Would be wonderful to meet in person and continue this conversation. For now, I'll keep my eyes posted here. I will be writing more about this journey for us on my own Substack, too. It seems like a timely topic, right??? Thanks for the link. I'm going to dig in now!
It’s always enjoyable to read “All Things Italy.” The stories about expats settling in Sicily and Spain are inspiring. When I lived in Florence and worked as a teacher, I became extremely homesick. Although I knew that it was good to be there and I loved the people and the culture, I needed to return to the US where my family was located. I am wondering how others have worked through this important aspect?
Patricia--thanks for reading and responding. Thanks, especially, for bringing up the important topic of distance from family. I know both these couples already have had their adult offspring visit them (more than once). Of course, that adds to the expense of traveling (beyond keeping up and restoring the homes). I have asked both couples about these topics and probably should have included it in the account. Perhaps some others will see your question and respond? If not, I'll certainly bring it up next month. I know Missy said that they thought family would prefer to visit them in Mallorca over visiting them in Missouri!
This is a really good subject to discuss ~ one of the toughest....although when I was living in Lucca in 2002 for a year - my husband and I were fine until 2 set of relatives visited and gave is covid! YIKES! 😳. There is a bright side to all things
Our adult children visit (in fact the entire family - my two, their spouses and a total of four grandsons!) left on Thursday after staying for ten days. That’s actually quite difficult for me as I’m an introvert and struggle to share my space but needs must! We also fly or drive back at least twice a year. U.K. is obviously a lot easier for this though as of course it is driveable (we do it over two nights) and flights shorter - although these days not necessarily cheaper!
Flip side to family visits, for sure! They are also a challenge--financially, and otherwise! So glad you have other perspectives of these topics. Thanks for sharing!
Gosh yes, the expense - and the washing once they’ve left - finally finished the 12th load of bedding and towels yesterday. At least there are no problems getting it all dry in this weather!
Hi, Patricia. We are currently splitting time between Mallorca and the US. This year, it will be two trips. My parents live in our town in the US, along with one of our children. Our two older kids live in Denver and Chicago. We make sure we’re home for major holidays, and celebrate birthdays when we can. As Etta mentioned, I told her when it came to choosing where our adult kids want to spend their vacation time, I assume they would rather visit us in Mallorca than Missouri. So far, that has worked out well. We gift them airline tickets for Christmas, unless there is something else they would rather have. We’re hoping if there are grandchildren some day, extended visits in the summer would be on their future agendas.
The photographs are so seductive, they draw you in but then the text was really insightful, balancing the pros and cons of these expat experiences. I also appreciated the pairing of two different couples and their experiences. So much to think about! Thanks for a "dreamy" read.
Thank you, Katherine. Both Missy and Jenn shared so many great photos with me. It was hard to select from them. Jenn has shared many through her Our Place in Sicily YouTube and Instagram sites that show you more than the images seductive in their beauty . . . I know both couples have faced more challenges (and joys) than I was able to include here. But at least I was able to provide a glimpse. Thanks again for reading and for your response. It is nice to dream, isn't it?
What a fun series! I am still swooning over those frescoes. I wonder if it’s terrifying living on the edge of a volcano? I saw the photos of the recent eruption (and all that ash people were sweeping off their porches!). My husband and I just bought a little house in an Umbrian hill town, and I’m going to turn the cellar into a little bookshop. I never get tired of reading about everyone’s Italian dreams. ❤️
Hi, Sarah! One of the fun aspects of this post is hearing from people like you! (I just subscribed to your newsletter). Of course, now I am realizing how many stories there are out there to share!!
When Etna started erupting a couple of weeks ago, I immediately reached out to Jenn to see if she and Matt and their neighbors were ok. She sent me the most glorious photos and videos and assured me that they are safe….(you can see some on their YouTube channel). Best of luck with your move and shop. I will be following…and thanks for reading and replying. I appreciate it!
Fascinating. I am so happy for these couples that you have highlighted. They are living their dream. We've been told my husband can apply for Italian citizenship because his grandfather was from Sicily. We have never seriously considered it, but this post prompted me to dig a little deeper, and I was surprised at how easily a retired couple can take up residence not only in Italy but in other places. Wow! Maybe one day...
Thanks for reading, Nancy. You are right—some aspects of such a move seem simple. Of course, there are lots of details I wasn’t able to include here. One is taxes. I plan to refer to that topic next month. (I’m no expert—just have looked at several sources, talked with friends like Jenn, Missy, and the two Matts, and listened to podcasts. Thanks again for reading and responding!
Interesting newsletter thanks for sharing. The palazzo, although a kind of dream challenge, sounds a bit too much! Its looks gorgeous though! Maybe they could let guests come on ‘renovate a room’ visits to get that sense of the adventure without the commitment! The Mallorcan version seems more manageable, the digital revolution has allowed us freedoms we never even thought about a few years ago and it feels like Americans are heading back to European roots! We’ve been on a bit of a similar journey here in Malta but more of a senior gap year as we start retirement. We’re coming to the end of the year and it has been amazing, I’m Maltese but I left here as a child only returning for holidays. It’s been great to fill in the gaps and just experience life here all year round rather than two weeks in the height of summer. And, I’ve been writing about it all in my newsletter which I hope I can look back on while contemplating the mores of the English climate on our return! 😂
Hey, Rita! I’m glad you enjoyed reading this issue. And I am happy to learn about your adventure in Malta! (I just subscribed to your newsletter). You are right that there seems to be an abundance of these expat experiences right now. Maybe we’re just noticing them more because of our own situations?? And the internet, as you say, increases the awareness AND the possibilities.
Jenn and Matt’s project is, indeed, a big one. My husband and I have restored 4 old houses in the US, but I don’t think I would ever be able to face an abandoned palazzo of the scope Jenn and Matt have chosen!
I have seen references to the show. I am not a big tv watcher—I am more of a reader. I spend more time on Substack than on YouTube anymore time reading than watching. Alas. But I appreciate the reminder. 😎❤️
We bought a casale (farmhouse) in the Tuscan hillside almost four years ago, at auction. We moved to Italy in November 2020 into a very strict lockdown. We thought the renovation of our house would take 8 months - it took three years - we finally moved in 8 months ago. Our initial renovation budget more than doubled despite my project managing and generally parsimonious nature! It has been hard - no-one considering this move should underestimate the difficulties they will face on many levels. The bureaucracy, taxes, odd little quirks which dictate what you can or can’t do with your own property (fencing it for one example) are exhausting. There is also what is laughingly referred to by expats as ‘the stranieri tax’ - there are two prices for everything - one for locals and one for foreigners. This in particular I find very frustrating. However having said all that, we have a wonderful life here, the medical system is first class (beating hands down the NHS), and the people are delightful. Will we stay forever? Doubtful as I think when we are older we will want to be nearer our family. Do we regret it? No, it’s an adventure and life is too short not to take chances. Would we do it again? Probably… (but not the renovation!) 😂
Thank you for this very honest and forthcoming response! From what I have learned, your points are very, very important--especially about taxes! And I have heard about the two prices, too. This post on "our place abroad" may be a little rosier than it should be--but I hope to post in the future more about the tax issues and the family topic. I'm happy to hear from you and, should you want to send me a direct message, I'd love to learn more about your experience with the casale in Tuscany. I'm also communicating now with someone who arrived in Tuscany just before lockdown hit, and it has definitely impacted their story of expat life. I'd love to stay in touch. (I'll be back in Tuscany in the fall).
I’d love to stay in touch and happy to answer any questions that you may have! I should have added we are both in our early 60’s and retired. We wanted an adventure before it was too late! I don’t actually know how to DM on here but please contact me if you would like to 😊
Will do!
Thanks for sharing these stories. Loved reading about Missy’s adventures!
Thank you, Jan! I hope Missy sees that you read and responded! I will try to be sure…She and Matt have a beautiful finca.
Hi, Jan! ❤️
This was so much fun to read, Etta. I am American, from New York, and met and married a Swede in 1989 and moved to Sweden and lived there for 18 years, when we and our two daughters, then 12 and 14, moved to Malta to live for four years as a family adventure. After my father's death in 2010, we moved back to the U.S. But every year we visited Sweden and my daughters have always felt more at home in Europe. Now 31 and 29, they make their homes in Barcelona and Paris with their partners, one of whom is Morrocan, the other Chilean. When I initiated my divorce in 2022, I had a feeling I would be returning to live in Europe. But caregiving for my mother with dementia took precedence; sadly she passed away in April. With what I am sure would be her blessing, I look forward to moving to Barcelona in Feb 2025. Thankfully, I have Swedish citizenship and so with that EU passport will be able to establish residency in Spain quite easily. I am inspired by you and by these other women who have successfully pursued their dreams to live abroad. There are more and more of us. I recently discovered this Substack writer, Starting Over In Spain (also Barcelona). Jennifer Bush, https://startingoverinspain.substack.com/ And like you I follow Anne Boyd and Kirsten Powers.
Amy, thank you so much for reading and responding. I apologize for my delay in writing back—and I’m sharing publicly rather than privately . . . should anyone else be interested! My sister married a Swede in ‘87. She remained in the US, however, except for travels. Her death about 10 days ago has thrown off all my social media (and a lot more of my daily routines). Reading about your transitions and/in family life have been helpful to me. I must add here, though, that I still live in the US. Since 2009 I have traveled to Italy as much as possible and continue to consider living there. I’ll be teaching in Pisa for a couple of months in the fall, so I have that new adventure ahead of me!
So happy to have discovered your writing here on Substack - what a great post.
Thank you, Jo. That's very kind of you! There are many good topics available here. I'm loving the community so far . . .
Hi Etta, So happy to have found you. My husband and I just bought a villa outside of Pistoia, Italy in February this year. Returning the end of the month (timed to avoid the US election! ) and will stay for 3 months. I got my Visa, but my husband's was declined. So always happy to share war stories about these moves abroad. But we couldn't imagine having any other adventure right now. i am 70 and it makes us feel quite young and alive! I will enjoy following along. Ciao!
Hi, Alecia! So happy to meet you virtually! I have a good friend in Pistoia. (See the May 2024 issue of All Things Italy! Link below) I look forward to learning more about your journey. I will be in Tuscany Oct-early December and hope we might meet face-to-face then.
https://open.substack.com/pub/ettamadden/p/italy-drew-her-like-a-magnet?r=oc60t&utm_medium=ios
Etta, Consider it a date! I will do my best to communicate with you through messages - send my email, WhatsApp phone, etc. Would be wonderful to meet in person and continue this conversation. For now, I'll keep my eyes posted here. I will be writing more about this journey for us on my own Substack, too. It seems like a timely topic, right??? Thanks for the link. I'm going to dig in now!
💐Thank you Etta so much for this post.
Thank you for reading, Laura. I look forward to learning your experiences.
It’s always enjoyable to read “All Things Italy.” The stories about expats settling in Sicily and Spain are inspiring. When I lived in Florence and worked as a teacher, I became extremely homesick. Although I knew that it was good to be there and I loved the people and the culture, I needed to return to the US where my family was located. I am wondering how others have worked through this important aspect?
Patricia--thanks for reading and responding. Thanks, especially, for bringing up the important topic of distance from family. I know both these couples already have had their adult offspring visit them (more than once). Of course, that adds to the expense of traveling (beyond keeping up and restoring the homes). I have asked both couples about these topics and probably should have included it in the account. Perhaps some others will see your question and respond? If not, I'll certainly bring it up next month. I know Missy said that they thought family would prefer to visit them in Mallorca over visiting them in Missouri!
This is a really good subject to discuss ~ one of the toughest....although when I was living in Lucca in 2002 for a year - my husband and I were fine until 2 set of relatives visited and gave is covid! YIKES! 😳. There is a bright side to all things
Oh, my! I definitely will follow up on this topic!!!
Our adult children visit (in fact the entire family - my two, their spouses and a total of four grandsons!) left on Thursday after staying for ten days. That’s actually quite difficult for me as I’m an introvert and struggle to share my space but needs must! We also fly or drive back at least twice a year. U.K. is obviously a lot easier for this though as of course it is driveable (we do it over two nights) and flights shorter - although these days not necessarily cheaper!
Flip side to family visits, for sure! They are also a challenge--financially, and otherwise! So glad you have other perspectives of these topics. Thanks for sharing!
Gosh yes, the expense - and the washing once they’ve left - finally finished the 12th load of bedding and towels yesterday. At least there are no problems getting it all dry in this weather!
Yes, outdoor clothes drying in Italy, most of the time—but not always.
Hi, Patricia. We are currently splitting time between Mallorca and the US. This year, it will be two trips. My parents live in our town in the US, along with one of our children. Our two older kids live in Denver and Chicago. We make sure we’re home for major holidays, and celebrate birthdays when we can. As Etta mentioned, I told her when it came to choosing where our adult kids want to spend their vacation time, I assume they would rather visit us in Mallorca than Missouri. So far, that has worked out well. We gift them airline tickets for Christmas, unless there is something else they would rather have. We’re hoping if there are grandchildren some day, extended visits in the summer would be on their future agendas.
The photographs are so seductive, they draw you in but then the text was really insightful, balancing the pros and cons of these expat experiences. I also appreciated the pairing of two different couples and their experiences. So much to think about! Thanks for a "dreamy" read.
Thank you, Katherine. Both Missy and Jenn shared so many great photos with me. It was hard to select from them. Jenn has shared many through her Our Place in Sicily YouTube and Instagram sites that show you more than the images seductive in their beauty . . . I know both couples have faced more challenges (and joys) than I was able to include here. But at least I was able to provide a glimpse. Thanks again for reading and for your response. It is nice to dream, isn't it?
What a fun series! I am still swooning over those frescoes. I wonder if it’s terrifying living on the edge of a volcano? I saw the photos of the recent eruption (and all that ash people were sweeping off their porches!). My husband and I just bought a little house in an Umbrian hill town, and I’m going to turn the cellar into a little bookshop. I never get tired of reading about everyone’s Italian dreams. ❤️
Hi, Sarah! One of the fun aspects of this post is hearing from people like you! (I just subscribed to your newsletter). Of course, now I am realizing how many stories there are out there to share!!
When Etna started erupting a couple of weeks ago, I immediately reached out to Jenn to see if she and Matt and their neighbors were ok. She sent me the most glorious photos and videos and assured me that they are safe….(you can see some on their YouTube channel). Best of luck with your move and shop. I will be following…and thanks for reading and replying. I appreciate it!
Fascinating. I am so happy for these couples that you have highlighted. They are living their dream. We've been told my husband can apply for Italian citizenship because his grandfather was from Sicily. We have never seriously considered it, but this post prompted me to dig a little deeper, and I was surprised at how easily a retired couple can take up residence not only in Italy but in other places. Wow! Maybe one day...
Thanks for reading, Nancy. You are right—some aspects of such a move seem simple. Of course, there are lots of details I wasn’t able to include here. One is taxes. I plan to refer to that topic next month. (I’m no expert—just have looked at several sources, talked with friends like Jenn, Missy, and the two Matts, and listened to podcasts. Thanks again for reading and responding!
Interesting newsletter thanks for sharing. The palazzo, although a kind of dream challenge, sounds a bit too much! Its looks gorgeous though! Maybe they could let guests come on ‘renovate a room’ visits to get that sense of the adventure without the commitment! The Mallorcan version seems more manageable, the digital revolution has allowed us freedoms we never even thought about a few years ago and it feels like Americans are heading back to European roots! We’ve been on a bit of a similar journey here in Malta but more of a senior gap year as we start retirement. We’re coming to the end of the year and it has been amazing, I’m Maltese but I left here as a child only returning for holidays. It’s been great to fill in the gaps and just experience life here all year round rather than two weeks in the height of summer. And, I’ve been writing about it all in my newsletter which I hope I can look back on while contemplating the mores of the English climate on our return! 😂
Hey, Rita! I’m glad you enjoyed reading this issue. And I am happy to learn about your adventure in Malta! (I just subscribed to your newsletter). You are right that there seems to be an abundance of these expat experiences right now. Maybe we’re just noticing them more because of our own situations?? And the internet, as you say, increases the awareness AND the possibilities.
Jenn and Matt’s project is, indeed, a big one. My husband and I have restored 4 old houses in the US, but I don’t think I would ever be able to face an abandoned palazzo of the scope Jenn and Matt have chosen!
Oh thanks for the subscription! It does feel like lots of people are on the move! Have you ever seen this UK show?
I have seen references to the show. I am not a big tv watcher—I am more of a reader. I spend more time on Substack than on YouTube anymore time reading than watching. Alas. But I appreciate the reminder. 😎❤️
https://thechateau.tv/pages/escape-to-the-chateau-1?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwO20BhCJARIsAAnTIVQFcUlWdJefVnLHevnNLtPeOdkQkodkj0s54yBWvq23BCfT9_vbASEaAjanEALw_wcB